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Category talk:Catholics
There are actually quite a few people who converted to Catholicism. We might make "Converts to Catholicism" a sub-cat. TR 05:41, 28 May 2009 (UTC) :Like who? George Enos, Shakespeare... Jelay14 16:17, 28 May 2009 (UTC) ::Shakespeare may or may not have been a Catholic, but if he was (as HT suggests) he was a Catholic all along. The feeling I got in RB is that he'd been introduced to the faith, become tepid in its practice in the face of persecution as he neared adulthood, and, when it became not only tolerated but mandatory with the coming of the Hapsburgs, learned to cherish it on his own. ::I read through the list and the only ones I could think of were Junior Enos and Longstreet. Junior is the only fictional character I can remember who made the switch, and while I'd need to do some research on the historicals I don't remember any of them other than Longstreet coming to the faith late in life. If anything, many left it. Turtle Fan 19:12, 28 May 2009 (UTC) :::Charles II of England, Gary Cooper, Enos Jr., Longstreet, Ernest Hemingway. Arguably some of the other RB characters, if not Shakespeare himself. There were some others I'd thought of last night, but now I can't summon them up. TR 00:14, 29 May 2009 (UTC) :::Oh, and Bob Hope. TR 00:17, 29 May 2009 (UTC) ::::Couple more: Mussolini converted in 1927, but didn't practice after that. William Sherman was reared by a Catholic mother and married a Catholic woman, but he didn't convert until later in life himself. TR 00:26, 29 May 2009 (UTC) :::::Oh yes, Sherman. He converted but didn't practice, at least not happily. His son became a priest and he wasn't pleased. :::::I can't believe I forgot Charles II. The rest are all news to me--None of them are people whose biographies have ever interested me. :::::RB characters are problematic. Many of them went to church because they were afraid not to, they never came to believe in the religion. Of those who did, you can't be sure who had been Catholic in secret back when they were persecuted and who had gone from sincerely Protestant to sincerely Catholic. The state forcing the practice of one religion over another is not good. :::::All right, we've got a bunch. I would worry about this, though: Is this a meaningful subdivision, or is it just subdivision for subdivision's sake? Turtle Fan 01:46, 29 May 2009 (UTC) ::::::That thought came to me as I was compiling the list. Only Enos' conversion was germaine to an HT work (and the RBs if we were to count them). Precision is nice, I suppose, but as I think upon it, I don't see it having much utility at this point. TR 03:16, 29 May 2009 (UTC) :::::::Thinking about the RBs, Geoffrey Martin talked about how grateful he was for the coming of the Spaniards because if they hadn't come the English wouldn't've come to see the truth of Catholicism. (Or at least it would take a long long time--In OTL Catholicism went back to outweighing Protestantism in 2007, but by then Britain was so thoroughly secularized it hardly mattered.) As I recall (don't feel like looking it up just now) the quote suggested that he had come to see the light after the Hapsburgs reintroduced his religion, but wasn't explicit. :::::::Not sure I'd call Jr Enos's conversion "germaine." In one scene Sylvia is trying to decide whether his marrying a Catholic bothers her. (She was so staunchly pious in the practice of her own faith, after all, and it must have grieved her to see him reject the shining religious example she'd set.) Quite some time later he mentions in passing that he had received the Sacraments of Initiation and joined the Church, and long after that, he fires off a quick prayer when it looks like he's about to be KIA and, when spared, finds the time to ponder idly his preference for a religion with elaborate ceremonies. It hardly advanced the plot. Turtle Fan 19:32, 29 May 2009 (UTC) Excommunicants This may be no more compelling than Converts, but we could create a category for Excommunicants: we've got Luther, Henry VIII (speaking of which, did we ever definitively decide not to create a Founders of Protestant Sects category?), Elizabeth I, Napoleon I, Honorius I (I've got to wonder about Popes Honorius II, Honorius III, and Honorius IV. Why would a Pope name himself after someone who'd been anathematized? Especially since between Honorius I and the real Honorius II there had also been an anti-pope who called himself Honorius II. Honorius of Canterury was a fine saint and all, but--two notorious excommunicants in a row?) and Joe Dimaggio, of all people. Turtle Fan 03:37, September 18, 2009 (UTC) :Given how religious conflict played a role in RB, Justinian and to an extent "BiDM", and how excommunicants were relevant to both, I think we should consider the topic. Reviewing Justinian, we might consider a broader approch than just those excommunicated by Rome. TR 01:16, September 19, 2009 (UTC) ::Tricky--Simply saying that a person was excommunicated without specifying by whom is not all that meaningful. Pretty much everyone would be turned away from full communion with some religion or other somewhere in the world. If we parse it down to "people excommunicated by religions they once practiced" . . . Meanwhile, I haven't read Justinian, so maybe I'll take your word for it, but how many are there? Wouldn't Catholic excommunicants dominate the category anyway? Turtle Fan 05:38, September 19, 2009 (UTC) :::They would. There might be one or two excommunicated (or its equivalent) by the Eastern Orthodox Church; I haven't reviewed it in that much detail. TR 15:07, September 19, 2009 (UTC) :::::Wasn't Justinian's story set before the Eastern Orthodox broke off? Turtle Fan 00:04, September 20, 2009 (UTC) ::::I don't recall excommunicates as such but I believe there were several heretics in the AoB stories. Would that be a different category or would one be a sub-cat of the other? ML4E 19:54, September 19, 2009 (UTC) :::::Excommunicants and heretics are pretty distinct. We'd better keep them apart. Turtle Fan 00:04, September 20, 2009 (UTC)